I'm a recent discoverer of Sarah Susanka and love everything about her designs and principles of homes. I will be designing and building a house in the future keeping her philosophy in mind. As with several of the people mentioned in her books, I will be on a tight budget. I am curious about the SIPS construction process. I believe her own house was built that way. I'm interested in comments from people who have built using SIPS. Accolades? Horror stories? The long-term? How did you go about finding a company and builder? Thanks.

My piece of advice is to only go with a builder who has a lot of experience with SIPs. You may find builders who are willing to try it for you, but their unfamiliarity with the process will lead to slower work, higher labor costs and more wasted material. This can negate the major advantages of building with SIPs.

Also, don't build with SIPs in Alaska. Every building material has it's geographical limitations and SIPs are no different. There have been numerous failures of SIP roofs in Alaska (failure in the sense of a horrible, messy collapse). It may well have been the result of improper installation, but the jury is still out on that.

I am considering building a SIP home in Wisconsin for its many advantages. I have found a builder with a crew that builds SIP only and has a great deal of experience with it.

My biggest concern is how it will be received if I decide to sell the house. WI is not a very progressive state and they don't necessary like new things. Anyone had any experience with this issue? Thanks.

Jack...

Since you have some knowledge in the building area... Does using SIPS in the mid atlantic region make sense ?? I was considering it for a three car garage/office upstairs building. SIPS mfgs say yes, stick framers say naaa,,
'Thanks

Ethiojazz,

Climate-wise, yes. I live in Virginia and looked into using SIPs for the house I'll be building in this Autumn. I only decided against it because my preferred contractor has never worked with them before.

Most of the mid-Atlantic gets cold enough winters to justify very high R-values, which is one of the big plusses of SIPS.

But you are talking about building a 3 car garage with an office upstairs - not a house. High insulation is usually not an important factor in building a garage. Many people forego insulation entirely in a detached garage. Which would seem to eliminate the major financial advantage of SIPS (energy savings over x years versus slightly higher cost of construction).

With only a small upstairs area of heated living space, you might as well just use conventional means to insulate that room alone.

After energy efficiency, the biggest advantage of SIPS is very fast construction. I can't imagine why saving a few days or weeks would be at all important when you are just building a garage, unless perhaps you planned to live upstairs while the main house is being built. That's a common approach to the time gap between selling your existing home and moving into a large new home that will take a while to build.

All things considered, if I were in your shoes I would go with 2x4 stick construction for your garage. SIPs have their uses, but rarely-heated outbuildings are not among them.

Jack...

Thanks for the input... We also considered using SIPS for the main house but had the same problem with subs. So ended up with hopefully a good solution.

As for the garage I will be insulating it but probably that can wait for a while.

Again thanks..

Hi, everyone.
We are also seriously looking into building our NSB home in Maine with SIPs. A helpful website
is the Structural Insulated Panel Association, with links to builders, etc. in all the States.

I agree it may be hard to find an experienced one. My preferred architect, although good at what he does, has not designed with SIPs in mind. So it's a scary leap of faith. We, too, want all the advantages of them. Also, that they go up quickly. We have this crazy idea that we may do much of the interior finish work ourselves.

Hope others chime in here, as well.

Meg

We recently built a SIPS home in Southern Utah and are very happy with it. The insulation is great - the house stays cool in summer and retains heat wonderfully in the winter. A few cautions: 1) Our architect was not conscientious about using standard lengths (e.g. 4', 8') when he designed the home. This created havoc with our builder, who then had to modify almost all of the panels on site. [From my viewpoint, whether a wall was 8' long or 8'3" made no difference - but it made a huge difference to the builder!] Increased labor, of course, translated directly into increased cost for us. So, if you use SIPS, double-check your architect and make sure all those odd lengths are modified to fit the size of the SIPS panels. Second, when a SIPS house is wired, all the electrical work must run through conduits that are part of the SIPS panels. Our house is on a concrete pad and has a flat roof -thus, no crawl space below and no attic above. Unbeknownst to us until afterwards, this made wiring the smoke alarms rather daunting (and expensive). Turns out that all smoke alarms have to be wired to each other, and I guess figuring out how to do this with SIPS and no attic was rather a challenge. Our builder suggested afterwards that it might have been more cost effective to build a false ceiling for the wiring rather than trying to figure out a way to snake it through all the fixed conduits throughout the house. Finally, once the house was completed, several insurance companies gave us a hard time about issuing insurance. One company even said SIPS posed an increased fire hazard, which is directly contrary to all the research. We finally got them straightened out and are now properly insured, but for a while, we were in a panic. Despite these concerns, we're still happy that we used SIPS. Good luck!
p.s. Our builder had never used SIPS before but was excited about the opportunity. He felt they were easy to work with and that he got the hang of the system quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by Jack:
Also, don't build with SIPs in Alaska. Every building material has it's geographical limitations and SIPs are no different. There have been numerous failures of SIP roofs in Alaska (failure in the sense of a horrible, messy collapse). It may well have been the result of improper installation, but the jury is still out on that.

Wait! Before discounting a construction method that is 14-20% more energy efficient than stick framing, check this out:

http://www.sips.org/DesktopModules/Articles/ArticlesVie...&ItemID=45&mid=11127

There is a book on SIPs published by Taunton Press that includes good details. A must-read for first timers- clients, designers, and builders alike.

Also, if you are considering SIPs, you should look into HRVs and ERVs for efficient ventilation. HRVs are especially practical in cold climates. ERVs do not have as long a life span, but still should prove to be economically sound.

hi snelson, while i'm unsure of wisconsin's attitude toward new building technology, i would like to ask you who the builder is that builds only sips there...

quote:

Originally posted by snelson:
I am considering building a SIP home in Wisconsin for its many advantages. I have found a builder with a crew that builds SIP only and has a great deal of experience with it.

My biggest concern is how it will be received if I decide to sell the house. WI is not a very progressive state and they don't necessary like new things. Anyone had any experience with this issue? Thanks.

I've pretty much had the same experience you have when I decided to build with SIPs. Depending on your location, it can be an uphill slog all the way. My $.02:

Our talented architect was apprehensive about designing with SIPs. The end solution was to design for conventional methods, then have the SIPs companies do the transition to SIPs construction. They are the pros, and all the companies I've dealt with can do this. The standing order for the archi was to use standard (4', 8') dimensions and limit any wall curves to the interior walls. To a SIP mfg, non-standard sizes are no big deal, as they will custom make the panels and cut out windows and doors at the factory. But curves are tricky.

I went through about half dozen SIPs and light gauge steel wall manufacturers. Some used expanded poly-styrene (styrofoam) as the insulator, others used polyurethane. There's quite a bit of difference in the two. I immediately nixed any mfg that made me doubt their professionalism off the bat. Believe it or not, in an nascent industry like this, there are ones that haven't a clue about customer service. In the end, it comes down to your due diligence in research and who you feel comfortable building YOUR HOUSE.

I was very fortunate here in South Bend, IN to find a custom builder that had the experience and right attitude with unconventional construction. It will cost me more to build with SIPs. One builder gave me a bid for stick framing, and added $12K option for using SIPs. But there are things about SIPs that your builder needs to know, such as the quality of the foundation. Since the SIPs go together with precision that far exceeds what stick framing requires, you'll have a tough time with SIPs if the foundation isn't true. Then there's wiring chases and plumbing. We had this planned in the design phase, and I don't plan on making any changes. But they need to be considered well in advance.

If you are committed to building with SIPs, some companies will send a trained crew just to erect the SIP envelope. Then you could have the subs do the rest.

I've wondered about the resale prospect. But I intend to keep a detailed record of my energy usage as a selling tool. My logic: I can get a higher loan to pay for SIPs and write the interest off, but I can't pay for higher and higher energy costs--ad infinitum--and write any of that off.

Current events have convinced me that I've made the right decision to build ubber energy efficient. I wasn't always so committed during the whole research and design process. I think this is the future though. Heck, before stick framing came along, everyone did timber framing and thought it was all that and a bag of chips...

Hello, all. I agree with most of what has been written. I think it was Jack who told us to work with builder/arch first, and then send it all to SIPs people, after talking with them. Our experienced traditional builder is very excited--new to concept but I have confidence he'll work efficiently. We are building small cottage in Maine with SIPs, and are right in the process of it, so time will tell...
Our architect was game, but we didn't have too many SIP options out our way. We did change to another company, when the first was pretty ditzy. HOWEVER, and while I don't fully understand this, there was a problem with the company not figuring out we needed another support for the main roof beam (gambrel design, not gable). Architect and his engineer had to come up with a workable cost effective and attractive solution. (When engineer said , well, we could completely redesign the Kitchen, architect said, "Don't even go there!!!!!" : )

Well, it should be a happy ending, and I'll report more in the future, and I also am darn happy about future energy savings! I think this will all be worth it. Since no one can tell fdrom the outside, I can
't see why resale would be a big problem.
Meg

SIPs are worth the effort...even if one has to do all one's own research, answer all those questions even the architects and bldg insp don't know. Pretty much we have found, here in Coeymans Hollow NY, that there is little or no tech knowledge around here, most everyone is from the 'old school'. However we hired a general contractor who is worth his weight in gold (or concrete, as the case may be!) when he did the measurements for the footings and foundation with nearly excruciating precision. It helped that he has had experience with SIPs, and admitted he still has all the stick built numbers in his head, but because his professionalism is based on a level of artistry second to none-- we have come up out of the ground, at long last. if anyone needs a gc that comes with rock solid credentials>> let me know and i will pass the message!
the biggest challenge to the homeowner is to know as much as you can,( taunton press has excellent how to's,) it seems you have to know what details no one else does. So far, we've designed our sip right from below ground all the way up, even having to direct bldg ins, engineers and labor to web pages, providing as much info as we can to facilitate the education base here in NY.
for us, in view of the lack of exp w/sips, don't be afraid to 'bloody'em up' as we say when detailing those planning pages. i think it's the need for whole numbers and absolute precision.
as for the electric channelling, we've chosen to opt for none. None of their predetermined measurements fit what we needed. Does anyone have any good ideas for routing your own? Has anyone ever done it in the field?

I have built elegant simplicity made of SIP walls. Roof as on the plan.

Maria, I am very interested in your experience (and with anyone else's) as I am giving very strong consideration to building Elegant Simplicity on the Northern Neck in Virginia (on the Bay). I have been interested in SIPs and curious about whether this design lends itself to using them. Any experience you want to share about your project would be hugely appreciated! Can you share anything about overall costs and how much using SIPs added to it?

We have a house designed with SIPs and almost ready to start building. We also have a friend who built a house near Atlanta with SIPs and is super pleased with the thermal performance. It is passive solar with most windows on the south. It does well in the summer and great in the winter.

The Alaska incident is unique and caused by poor sealing as the link states. I would not include it in a SIP decision. Any roof would have suffered with that moisture problem.

But, that being said, I recently looked at several houses built with ICF, (Insulated Concrete Forms), and was very impressed. We may look at changing our design for ICF's on the first floor and SIPs on the second and roof. We still have not decided yet.

ICF's do offer more thermal mass and even though the thermal mass is insulated on both sides, it does buffer temperature swings very well. ICF walls coupled with a SIP roof, insulated concrete slab with insulated earth box below, both heated with radiant tubing, will create a super performing house.

quote:

Originally posted by Maria:
I have built elegant simplicity made of SIP walls. Roof as on the plan.

Any photos available of your Elegant Simplicity? Anything you can share about your SIP experience would be helpful...Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Dan:
Maria, I am very interested in your experience (and with anyone else's) as I am giving very strong consideration to building Elegant Simplicity on the Northern Neck in Virginia (on the Bay). I have been interested in SIPs and curious about whether this design lends itself to using them. Any experience you want to share about your project would be hugely appreciated! Can you share anything about overall costs and how much using SIPs added to it?

Did you get Elegant Simplicity built? Anything you can share (photos, liveablility, etc) would be appreciated. Did you go with SIPs or conventional construction?